Near tears at morning minyan
I'm not a great fan of the Tachanun prayer, and often skip it, but it does have its uses--when a minyan in which I'm participating recites it, I have more time to finish the Amidah prayer.
Unfortunately for my purposes, my "Kaddish minyan" hasn't recited Tachanun for several days. I'm guessing that there's a tradition to skip Tachanun between Erev Yom Kippur/the Eve of the Day of Atonement and two days after Simchat Torah.
On Erev Yom Kippur, when we say neither Tachanun nor Psalm 29, La-m'natzeiach, we had a baal tefillah/prayer leader who was so fast that I didn't even finish the Amidah soon enough to say the Kaddish Yatom/Mourner's Kaddish prayer after the Aleinu prayer. It's a good thing there's always at least one more Kaddish in Shacharit/Morning Service (after Shir shel Yom/Psalm of the Day, or, until Hoshana Rabbah, Psalm 27, L'David, HaShem Ori v'Yish'i).
Today, the baal tefillah was so fast that I had just barely finished the third paragraph of the Sh'ma when they started the Amidah. I was so upset I was ready to pack my bags and go home. They were already up to shlishi (the third aliyah), in the k'riat haTorah (Torah reading) by the time I finally finished the Amidah.
Frankly, I'm so discouraged about almost always being at least half a page, if not five pages, behind everybody else that I'd gladly leave and never davven/pray with a minyan again, were it not for the fact that I need a minyan to say Kaddish for my mother.
And it would be even worse if not for the fact that (a) when I was in my late twenties (and pre-kid), I taught myself, over the course of several months, to pray the weekday Amidah (using a Birnbaum Siddur/prayer book [Orthodox, Nusach Ashkenaz]), and, therefore, I already knew it when (b) I took upon myself the obligation to pray three days every day a little over two years before my mother died, thereby giving myself two years practice. Can you imagine what davvening in a weekday minyan must be like for someone who can barely read Hebrew (or not) and/or has never prayed a weekday service before, even if they're "Shabbos regulars" (people who come to synagogue every Sabbath)?
A weekday minyan is not for beginners. No mercy is shown to anyone who can't read Hebrew well, if at all, and/or who doesn't already know the prayers practically by heart because s/he's been davvening them daily since s/he was six years old. In some synagogues, pages aren't called, or are called infrequently. When I suggested to the gabbai that it might be a good idea to announce the page numbers for the Torah reading, he said, "Everyone knows which parsha (weekly reading) it is." Clearly, it never occurred to him that that's not necessarily true. We newcomers and relative newcomers are simply left to fend for ourselves. So much for us Jews being rachmanim b'nei rachmanim, compassionate children of the compassionate.
See my October 20, 2009 follow-up post.
While you're at it, see my April 10, 2010 follow-up post, The pace and scheduling of public prayer.
Wednesday, October 3, 2012 update: For the record, here's the original complaint, Morning Madness--on davvenning Shacharit.
Unfortunately for my purposes, my "Kaddish minyan" hasn't recited Tachanun for several days. I'm guessing that there's a tradition to skip Tachanun between Erev Yom Kippur/the Eve of the Day of Atonement and two days after Simchat Torah.
On Erev Yom Kippur, when we say neither Tachanun nor Psalm 29, La-m'natzeiach, we had a baal tefillah/prayer leader who was so fast that I didn't even finish the Amidah soon enough to say the Kaddish Yatom/Mourner's Kaddish prayer after the Aleinu prayer. It's a good thing there's always at least one more Kaddish in Shacharit/Morning Service (after Shir shel Yom/Psalm of the Day, or, until Hoshana Rabbah, Psalm 27, L'David, HaShem Ori v'Yish'i).
Today, the baal tefillah was so fast that I had just barely finished the third paragraph of the Sh'ma when they started the Amidah. I was so upset I was ready to pack my bags and go home. They were already up to shlishi (the third aliyah), in the k'riat haTorah (Torah reading) by the time I finally finished the Amidah.
Frankly, I'm so discouraged about almost always being at least half a page, if not five pages, behind everybody else that I'd gladly leave and never davven/pray with a minyan again, were it not for the fact that I need a minyan to say Kaddish for my mother.
And it would be even worse if not for the fact that (a) when I was in my late twenties (and pre-kid), I taught myself, over the course of several months, to pray the weekday Amidah (using a Birnbaum Siddur/prayer book [Orthodox, Nusach Ashkenaz]), and, therefore, I already knew it when (b) I took upon myself the obligation to pray three days every day a little over two years before my mother died, thereby giving myself two years practice. Can you imagine what davvening in a weekday minyan must be like for someone who can barely read Hebrew (or not) and/or has never prayed a weekday service before, even if they're "Shabbos regulars" (people who come to synagogue every Sabbath)?
A weekday minyan is not for beginners. No mercy is shown to anyone who can't read Hebrew well, if at all, and/or who doesn't already know the prayers practically by heart because s/he's been davvening them daily since s/he was six years old. In some synagogues, pages aren't called, or are called infrequently. When I suggested to the gabbai that it might be a good idea to announce the page numbers for the Torah reading, he said, "Everyone knows which parsha (weekly reading) it is." Clearly, it never occurred to him that that's not necessarily true. We newcomers and relative newcomers are simply left to fend for ourselves. So much for us Jews being rachmanim b'nei rachmanim, compassionate children of the compassionate.
See my October 20, 2009 follow-up post.
While you're at it, see my April 10, 2010 follow-up post, The pace and scheduling of public prayer.
Wednesday, October 3, 2012 update: For the record, here's the original complaint, Morning Madness--on davvenning Shacharit.
posted by Shira Salamone at 12:25 PM
18 Comments:
I don't think I can help you with the davening speed issue, but here's one little suggestion. The paperback version of the full Sim Shalom (not the "slim shalom") includes all the Monday/Thursday parshiot in the back of the book. At least you don't have to shift back and forth between a chumash and a siddur.
In fairness, your gabbai is not being unreasonable. Presumably, most at daily minyan are able to find their way around a siddur or a chumash without page number announcements.
TOTJ Steve, thanks, but that's a gornisht helfen (no help). Having all the parshiot (weekly Torah readings) in the same book as the prayers won't help a person who doesn't know which parsha we're reading.
"Presumably, most at daily minyan are able to find their way around a siddur or a chumash without page number announcements." That's the point of my post--the gabbai is basing his assumption on "most." A daily minyan is often conducted with the assumption that everyone present already knows what s/he's doing and/or what's going on. Were it not for the fact that I already know the prayers, I could say Kaddish with this (or just about any) minyan for the entire 11 months required of a person saying Mourner's Kaddish for a parent, and, given the lack of page announcements and the speed, still be unable to davven Shacharit (or, at least, be unable to davven it in Hebrew). (And heaven help the person who's not only lost in the siddur, but is also trying to learn to lay tefillin.) Maybe that's unavoidable, given that many "minyannaires" have to rush off to work, but it's pretty sad, nevertheless.
Someone I see at Maariv actually starts 5-10 min before everyone else. He is always the smartest guy in any room and a talmid chacham/ tzadik (I dont use either term lightly.)
Perhaps a similar strategy can be used for shachrit, targeting either amidah or shema with everyone depending on each others pace.
Good luck
YC, I asked my local rabbi whether I could say Kaddish d'Rabbanan (the "Rabbis' Kaddish) and Kaddish Yatom (Mourner's Kaddish) if I said Birkot HaShachar (the Morning Blessings), the Rabbi Yishmael quote, and Psalm 30 Mizmor, Shir Chanukat HaBayit, L'David, before I got to synagogue, and he said yes. So I say them at home and/or on the subway (usually half and half). I almost always end up davvening the balance of Shacharit, after the Amidah, when I go home to drop off my tallit and tefillin or on the subway. That's the best I can manage. There's no point in davvening past P'sukei d'Zimra (the Introductory Prayers) before the service starts, since I want to say Bar'chu with the minyan. (And yes, I skip huge chunks of P'sukei d'Zimra in order to get to Bar'chu in time to say it with the minyan.)
I'm sorry that you've had his negative experience in an already difficult time in an environment that is supposed to be comforting.
Personally, I like being in a minyan where pages aren't announced. There are a number of reasons for this, though I think they might merit their own post over at my place... I tend to think that the solution to the (very real) problem of newcomers feeling lost is for the community to be more aware and welcoming and caring, and keeping an eye on someone they notice is new, and jumping to help them if they seem lost. That is perhaps more difficult to cultivate than just having someone announce pages, but I think it holds infinitely more value.
As for the speed of davenning, I know the feeling. I've been davenning regularly for a little over two years and I'm still working on some of the Hebrew (the Amida I have down in Heb.) and there's always that sha"tz who gets up thee and you have to wonder if she or he is even bothering to say the prayers. Have you talked to this person directly and explained your situation? I would imagine that if you mention that you are saying Kaddish and are finding it difficult to do so because of the speed of his Amida, he should be sympathetic. I can't say he WILL but he SHOULD. And while there is harm in speeding up another's prayer, there is rarely any harm in (reasonably) slowing someone down.
I hope you're able to find the balance you need. שבת שלום וחג סמח!
First of all -- meaning no disrespect to anyone specifically -- don't be so certain that everyone who rattles through Shacharit at breakneck speed is actually able to read Hebrew that fast or comprehends what he/she is reading. I'm sure many are knowledgeable (including, one hopes, the shali'ah. tzibur), and are sincere in their feeling that slowing the pace disrupts the flow of the experience for them.
The page-number-calling issue was raised when I was a gabbai at the egal minyan at JTS during rabbinical school. Our answer was, "People from the community come here to daven and say kaddish. The extra few seconds it takes to keep them with the kahal is a small price to pay for fulfilling the mitzvah of hakh'nasat or'h.im (hospitality to visitors).
Pirkei Avot notes that one is supposed to be "meticulous in reciting Sh'ma and Amidah" -- yet these are the texts which folks tend to zip through. They are, of course, the obligatory part of the service, which just adds to the irony.
For the moment, I'd go with the strategy of beginning your own davenen of this "matbei'a shel t'filah" (the obligatory part of the service) at your own pace, so that you end up at Kaddish Yatom with the rest of the group. If there are others in the community who encounter this problem (especially if they don't come to this minyan as a result), try bringing those folks to your gabbai as well.
How many folks are the regular speed-daveners? If they're getting 20-30 early on, that's one thing. But if they sometimes don't get 10 until P'sukei d'Zimra, the "preference" of the minyan only represents a handful of individuals. To reject the input of people who WOULD come and are not asking for a change in halakhah or minhag (and, I assume, would lower the median age of the minyan) is not a wise course of action. L'fi aniyut da'ati . . .
Some of the minyanim I have been a part of have had an issue with speed. They have moved so quickly that I couldn't believe that most people were saying everything.
I always suspected something was funny with the speed davening they did.
Shira, why expect others to take responsibility for someone's prayer experience? That's one of the problems facing American Jewry. Why dumb the service down because some people don't understand? Let those who don't understand find a learner's minyan. If they want to know what parhsa is this week, look it up on the internet before services. Why is it that people are perfectly competent in other spheres of their lives don't want to make an effort to figure out what to do at shul, and want it handed to them?
Interestingly, in the Lubavitch custom, which is known for its machmir halachic observance, there is a story: that there was a Baal Teshuva who could not read Hebrew, just Russian. So the Rebbe said, pray in Russian...it is still from the heart. It still counts.
"I tend to think that the solution to the (very real) problem of newcomers feeling lost is for the community to be more aware and welcoming and caring, and keeping an eye on someone they notice is new, and jumping to help them if they seem lost." In fairness, Spinoza, the Kaddish minyannaires have tried to be welcoming, but being from another neighborhood & a member of another synagogue, I haven't attended their shul on a Shabbat in years, so I just don't have time to get to know people, since, on weekdays, most of us are rushing off to work.
"Have you talked to this person directly and explained your situation?" The minhag/custom is for the gabbai (shamash?) to offer the baal/baalat tefillah (prayer leader, male or female) honor to various individuals, & almost all of those in the "rotation" davven faster than I can keep up. One of them has even joked with me that his own father joked that morning minyan leaders davven faster than he can skip. :)
". . . don't be so certain that everyone who rattles through Shacharit at breakneck speed is actually able to read Hebrew that fast or comprehends what he/she is reading." Indeed, Rev Dov, that's pretty much what my joking co-minyannaire was saying. Then, of course, there was the minyannaire who actually laughed when I told him that I was following the instructions of one of my previous rabbis and not skipping a single word of the matbeiah. (I think I blogged about that conversation previously.)
"I'm sure many are knowledgeable (including, one hopes, the shali'ah. tzibur), and are sincere in their feeling that slowing the pace disrupts the flow of the experience for them." I've heard that argument before. I can't say I blame them, but that appraoch does pose some difficulties for us "newbies."
"For the moment, I'd go with the strategy of beginning your own davenen of this "matbei'a shel t'filah" (the obligatory part of the service) at your own pace, so that you end up at Kaddish Yatom with the rest of the group." I don't like to start the matbei'a shel t'filah before the minyan, as I like to join them in Bar'chu. But I do say Birckot HaShachar at home &/or during the subway ride to my Kaddish minyan synagogue, and I skip more of P'sukei D'Zimra than I say. So at least I'm on time for Bar'chu. :)
The extra few seconds it takes to keep them with the kahal is a small price to pay for fulfilling the mitzvah of hakh'nasat or'h.im (hospitality to visitors)."
Amen. Really, would it kill anyone?
"Pirkei Avot notes that one is supposed to be "meticulous in reciting Sh'ma and Amidah" -- yet these are the texts which folks tend to zip through. They are, of course, the obligatory part of the service, which just adds to the irony." Personally, I find it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to pray at "morning minyan speed" with any semblance of kavvanah (focus).
"To reject the input of people who WOULD come and are not asking for a change in halakhah or minhag (and, I assume, would lower the median age of the minyan) is not a wise course of action." I suspect that some of the folks who come only to say kaddish on a yahrzeit and complain that the service is so fast might come more often if the service *weren't* so fast.
"L'fi aniyut da'ati " Er, "For the sake of poverty is my law?" Could you kindly provide a more accurate translation and/or interpretation?
"They have moved so quickly that I couldn't believe that most people were saying everything." Jack, I think it varies. I have actually heard my rabbi davven/pray aloud at a ridiculous speed, so I would have to say that some folks *are* actually davvening at that speed, but others are faking it.
Reb Barry, be patient. I'll response to your comment separately.
Scott, the irony is that I've actually tried praying in English occasionally, and I've found, much to my surprise, that my Hebrew praying sense is now fast enough that I can't pray any more quickly in English! But praying in one's native tongue is certainly an option, at least and/or until one can learn to pray (quickly) in Hebrew. I do fall back on English quite frequently during the Yamim Noraim/High Holiday services.
l'fi aniyas da'ati means "in my humble opinion."
I'm torn because I don't entirely agree with anyone here. I think the "regulars" set the tone for the minyan. My regular weekday one takes about 40 minutes, which is ideal to me. Weekday at my "real" shul (i.e., the one I go to on shabbos) is 30 minutes, which is too fast, IMO. So I vote with my feet (and tefillin).
But a kaddish sayer (i.e., someone who will stick around for 11 months and then disappear again) has less of a say than the folks that have been going for years. There's a guy at my minyan who started saying kaddish, and started dragging out davening (he's insisting on being the shaliach tzibur, as is his priority). So, the regulars (self included) have basically asked the rabbi to get the guy to speed it up, or we'll just go elsewhere for a period of time. The rabbi knows who is there week in and week out, and who keeps the minyan going.
Reality is, you're better off going to a very ortho place where they go much slower for kriat shma and shmona esrei. But then there's the kaddish issue, so it's a no win.
Oh, I forgot that "da'at" means knowledge, "dat" means law. Thanks for the explanation, JDub.
"40 minutes . . . is ideal to me." When I davven bi-y'chidut (alone) at home, I take about 50 minutes, so 40 minutes would put me within hailing range. Unfortunately, voting with my feet is not an option--there's no other daily minyan that I can get to in less than 45 minutes that (a) counts women in a minyan and (b) won't throw me out for the "crime* of wearing tallit and tefillin while female.
"But a kaddish sayer (i.e., someone who will stick around for 11 months and then disappear again) has less of a say than the folks that have been going for years." That's a legitimate issue--the shul that I attend to say Kaddish is not within walking distance, so I never davvened with their weekday minyan before I needed a Kaddish minyan.
"Reality is, you're better off going to a very ortho place where they go much slower for kriat shma and shmona esrei." I'd *love* to go to a minyan that goes much slower for kriat shma and shmona esrei! "But then there's the kaddish issue, so it's a no win." Never mind being counted, which, obviously, isn't going to happen for a female attending an Orthodox synagogue--there's also the issue of whether they would even allow a woman to say kaddish at all. Some Ortho shuls do, some don't, and some only allow a woman to say kaddish if there's also a man saying kaddish. I'd have to know the local rules.
Reb Barry, you said "Let those who don't understand find a learner's minyan." In all my 60 years, I've never heard of a learner's minyan for *weekday* services. Does such a thing exist?
"If they want to know what parhsa is this week, look it up on the internet before services." Okay, 1 time in 3 months I forgot to check which parsha was that week's parsha. So shoot me for being guilty as charged. I'll remember to check in the future.
"why expect others to take responsibility for someone's prayer experience? That's one of the problems facing American Jewry. Why dumb the service down because some people don't understand? . . . Why is it that people are perfectly competent in other spheres of their lives don't want to make an effort to figure out what to do at shul, and want it handed to them?"
I was baalat tefillah at what my husband describes as the "morning mezuman" (minimum of 3 Jewish adults) at our local synagogue for several months before my mother's death forced me to seek a minyan (minimum of 10 Jewish adults) with which to say kaddish. Allow me to introduce you to the "regulars" there:
Regular #1 is skilled in davvening/praying, and has frequently led the weekday Shacharit. Regular #2 is also skilled in davvening, but has disabilities that prevent her/him from leading services. Regular #3 has limited Hebrew-reading skills. Regular #4 has disabilities that made it impossible for him/her to stay in Hebrew School, and cannot read the alef-bet. Regulars #5 and 6 are both able to pray in Hebrew, but, one being an ex-Soviet and the other a Jew by Choice, have limited experience, and therefore, pray rather slower. Of the six regular attendees of our local "morning mezuman," only one can be held accountable for not having worked on his/her Hebrew and/or praying skills. I'm so glad that you're not their rabbi, as I'm sure you'd make them feel thoroughly unwelcome.
As for me, I take it that you didn't even notice my remark that I'd spent several months teaching myself to pray the weekday Amidah. My problem isn't that I don't know the service, but that I can't pray it at breakneck speed. I'm not asking that the service be *dumbed* down, I'd just appreciate it if the service were *slowed* down. But, apparently, that's none of your concern, either. Remind me never to visit your synagogue, the next time I'm in Israel. I'm sure you'll make *me* feel thoroughly unwelcome, too.
What Reb Dov said . . . I don't think every baal tfila says all the words. When those with whom I agree on this and have discussed this same issue are leading the davening, I actually get to finish aleynu before the mourners' kaddish starts. I don't have to say kaddish, but if I fall behind, must wait til after kaddish to finish v'al keyn. Same with shir shel yom before taking out the torah on shabbat. I lavishly praise any baal tfila (for saying all the words) that I can keep up with.
I hear you, Stuart. I honestly don't know whether all of the baalei and/or baalot tefillah/prayer leaders are actually saying all the words. I generally end up saying at least some of the prayers that follow the Amidah while I'm in the subway--have small siddur, will travel.
Have you thought about doing some of your davening in English? When I arrive late I usually start in English, doing the key bits in Hebrew, until I catch up.
When I do have the opportunity to lead I try to do very a slow amidah and shema (for the reason stated elsewhere in the comments).
As I recall, the institution of the reader's repetition of the amidah was exactly for this purpose -- so people who didn't know Hebrew could fulfill their obligation.
Adam S., the last time I tried praying in English, I was surprised to discover that, at this point, I can't daven any more quickly in English than in Hebrew. Apparently, either my Hebrew has improved &/or I've become quite familiar with the various services.
"When I do have the opportunity to lead I try to do very a slow amidah and shema . . . " For me, that would be nice. Whether some of the more expert davveners would appreciate it is an interesting question.
"As I recall, the institution of the reader's repetition of the amidah was exactly for this purpose -- so people who didn't know Hebrew could fulfill their obligation." So I've heard, but people tend to forget that, more's the pity. Some baalei tefillah/prayer leaders rush through the prayers at 90 miles an hour even on Shabbat/Sabbath. Others are so sloppy with their pronunciation that I wonder whether a listener really fulfills his/her obligation just by saying "amen," given that the listener has actually not heard every word. When a person leading Kiddush says the words so quickly and/or sloppily that I couldn't swear I've actually heard every word, I say kiddush quietly to myself before drinking the grape juice.
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